When you think of a MILSUB, you rightfully think of a Submariner watch that was made specifically by the manufacturer, for a Military force or unit, on request by a military customer. In this article I focus on two brands of watches namely Rolex and Tudor (which are for all intents and purposes, the same company) who are responsible for creating these models and references which have a very significant place in military watch heritage. From the late 1950’s certain militaries specified certain design features for their military dive watches, and at the time, Rolex obliged, often with its own reference (5517, 5510 etc). Fixed spring bars, NATO straps, larger luminescent hands, larger and differently calibrated bezels, and sometimes different materials made these watches different from their civilian counterparts, all customized to overcome the shortcomings of the civilian model in a military and tactical environment.

But what if a particular military procured batches of civilian reference (supplied by manufacturer) watches and issued these to specialist units such as the naval submarine and dive branches or army special force units. Is this classified as a MILSUB? Strictly speaking…….by definition, NO……but by purpose and use, YES…….in my opinion….and very much so. While they may not have had a unique new reference, their military engravings and active history of use, enforce this.

In this article, I will delve into these infamous Rolex and Tudor Submariners used by the South African Navy (SAN), the South African Special Forces, and one other organisation that to date has not been linked to these watches. The first part of this article will cover the Tudor Reference 7016, the second the Tudor Reference 9401/0, and the final the Rolex 5513.

How and why the SAN acquired their Tudor Submariner Watches

In the 1970’s, the South African Navy procured three submarines and intended purchasing corvettes from the French defence contractor DCNS (Direction des Constructions Navales). The first Daphne-class submarine, SAS Maria van Riebeeck, was commissioned in 1970, with SAS Emily Hobhouse and SAS Johanna van der Merwe entering service the following year in 1971. This relationship lasted until the late 70’s when disaster struck for the Navy procurement programs.

NEWS FLASH!!!

PARIS, Nov. 8, 1977—”France has cancelled the delivery of two submarines and two corvettes under construction for South Africa, in keeping with the mandatory ban by the United Nations Security Council last week on arms sales to the South African Government”, the French Defence Ministry announced today. Until recently, France had been able to maintain a lucrative arms trade and commercial relationship with South Africa while also keeping strong ties with black African nations, particularly its former colonies.

The embargo on the ships is the latest signal that the French are being forced to abandon their delicate balancing act under pressure from black African countries.

The South African Ambassador said today that neither he nor his government had been informed of the decision to cancel delivery of the vessels. “The question is premature and still a matter of negotiation,” said Ambassador Louis Pienaar. But officials at the Defence Ministry asserted that no further armaments, including the four warships, would be delivered to the South Africans because of the United Nations resolution.

A Daphne-class submarine (one of three received from the French during the SAN Submarine Project) surfacing somewhere at sea (Photo by SAN).

We know that the Marine Nationale (MN) purchased and issued Tudor watches (including Reference 7016 and 9401’s) throughout the period from the late 1960’s through to the late 1980’s. What is not commonly known is that the South African Navy (SAN) also “procured” these very same reference Tudor watches for use by Submariners and Divers. Despite there being close working relationship between the French and SAN, I am going to surmise that these Tudor watches were bought directly from Rolex/Tudor due to the clear and definitive batch serial numbers visible on the watches which are specific to the MN and SAN batches, as shown in the table below. In my opinion, the clear distinction between batches would be unlikely if the French first purchased these watches from Rolex/Tudor and then sold them to the South Africans as the serial numbers to each would most likely (but not impossible) have been mixed within the range. Most, but not all South African Navy issued watches also look to have some evidence of bracelet wear on the underside of the lugs, something the Marine Nationale don’t seem to have……which leads me to believe they were issued on bracelet, unlike their MN counterparts that were issued on NATO strap. Many, but not all pictures I have had access to, show them on bracelet. This is further evidence that they were most likely ordered from Rolex and not the Marine Nationale.

Tudor Submariner Reference 7016

Interesting fact! By request of the Marine Nationale, Tudor were requested come up with a variation of the previous Tudor Submariner 7928 that would improve visibility and legibility in an underwater environment. Tudor modified the design by making the hands bigger (resembling a Snowflake) and the hour markers square……..this defined the look of their Submariner models for the next 10+ years.

While earlier MN serial numbers in low quantity batches exist, most of the serial numbers of MN and all SAN Reference 7016’s are 827XXX. In fact, the MN range fit in-between the SAN issued Tudors as shown in the table below. To date I have not seen a single MN serial within a SAN sequence or a SAN serial within a MN sequence. Research suggests that an initial batch of 200 units Reference 7016 Tudor submariners entered SAN service in 1975. This was followed by a second batch of approximately 200 units within a few years. A final one or two batches of approximately 40 units of Reference 9401’s appears to have concluded the SAN’s orders.

It is interesting to note that the serial numbers of these Tudor REF: 7016’s seem to fall outside of the “normal” manufacturers range. The 827xxx is quite high for this reference and most 7016’s I have seen run up to the late 700000. In fact, there appears to be later reference 94010’s with earlier serials than these 827xxx serial 7016’s. I believe these were likely set aside and intended for “special” use by the supplier, namely Rolex/Tudor.

I do however believe it likely that the recommendation for the watches was from someone from the MN, who had supply and training history with the South African Navy during the submarine procurement project.

A feature of all the South African Navy watches is that each has an engraving on the case-back. The Reference 7016’s had their case numbers engraved on the outside of the case-back in a very distinctive font and size. This engraving was done by means of a pantograph, a device used to transcribe either numerals or numbers from a large template to that of a smaller area which for these watches was the case-back.

The Pantograph was used to engrave the casebacks. A template in the front would transfer the serial number to the watches caseback via a cutting head.

Image showing 5 SAN engraved watches. I’m often  asked why i distort out the engravings. Unfortunately, if shown, these would most likely be the targets of counterfeiters. I’m always happy to share with enthusiasts on request.

The South African issued Tudor 9401/0 Serial 93xxxx. Entered service in approx 1977.Note the “Moon like” surface of the dial. It is a known defect of this period and is most likely bought about by excess heat or moisture…..or a combination of both.This has been fully serviced but left in original condition as found. (Photo by Author).Housing an upgraded ETA-based movement, the calibre 2776 which was fitted with a hacking seconds feature that made more precise time-setting possible. This was important in military environments.
Unlike their Rolex counterparts, the movements have no serial numbers.

The inside caseback service marks are clearly identifiable and are consistent with other South African Navy examples of both 7016’s and 9401’s. I would estimate, based on actual serial numbers seen, that there were approximately only 40 of these purchased by the South African Navy.

Then there is the later reference 9401/0. I assume the SAN required more watches at some point (possibly due to members strapping them onto the sides of submarines, if an anecdotal account from the earlier generation of Daphne Submariners is correct) and placed another order with Rolex/ Tudor. To date only 3 of these 9401’s with black dials have surfaced and all share a very specific font on their case-back engravings and are within 31 units of one another, with prefix being 93xxxx. For the Reference 9401’s I have seen, the case numbers are engraved in a different font to the reference 7016’s and have a “coarser” engraving with poor “center” alignment.

There is also a blue dialed 9401 which is also consistent with the SAN watches but with a slightly earlier serial number than the black dials (926xxx) which was most likely another batch, or top-up purchase by the SAN. This model remained in production and was delivered to the French Navy until the 1980s, but the watches’ use extended into the 2000s, especially at the French Navy diving school and amongst combat swimmers. Although officially decommissioned fifteen years ago, Tudor MNs are seen sometimes still today on the wrists of reservists and veteran servicemen alike.

The MN watchmaker/s seemed to keep great records of their watches and service history. I asked my contact if he thought it was possible that the SAN did the same, and whether there was any possibility of a record or log of these watches existing……his response was as follows….

”The Navy stores system is such that trying to find a single list would be very difficult. The submarine base SAS Hugo Biermann, the Mine Countermeasures (MCM) flotilla, SAN Diving School, and the Strike Craft Flotilla all had their own logistics stores, budgets, and assets. SAS Wingfield was central for these but it’s not clear how these watches were ordered from Rolex/Tudor, or by which store. The submarine project and any projects from Dive School for purchasing of diving equipment would have been through any one of multiple stores sections providing logistical support at the time. Those disposed of legally would have gone out through Wingfield. It’s likely near impossible to unravel now…………”

There is evidence of Navy members still receiving these watches in the mid-1990’s, unfortunately, things seem to become difficult to follow and records of them being issued and returned difficult to reconcile

A few memories that SAN members I chatted to had of their issued Tudors….

“I received one as a Strike Craft Navigator…when it needed some repairs, the SAN would not pay for it and I couldn’t afford the “Rolex” repair costs myself so it lay useless in the cupboard forever”

“I was entitled to draw a watch for use during navigation duties, so in 1996 when my personal Seiko went off for a lengthy battery change, I drew a Tudor Submariner from flotilla stores. I returned the Tudor Submariner when my Seiko was back in action (which I regret now but at the time the Tudor Submariner was “just a watch” and a liability against my name)”.

 “All ended up in a cupboard in Winfield as I recall”

“Onboard SAS Fleur we had a box of 12 of them for the divers. I wore one for a while but it kept such poor time it went back in the box. The divers liked them for a while but the cost of losing one, they soon all returned them all”

“After completing the SAN Diving Supervisors course, I went with Warrant xxx XXXX to naval stores to get one and had to give it back when I discharged from the navy. Had no problems with it”

“…same here…did the Diving Supervisors course…got the watch and returned it when I left in 1990…same with my officers sword… now I wish I bought it back then…but no $$ then…..”

“One of my biggest regrets having to return my officers sword…but we were paid so little back then I could not even afford to buy it back”

“WO xxxx , xxxx on the PP (SAS President Pretorius) 83/85 had one”

“I remember requesting a dive watch from stores and being offered the Citizen Dive watch that was then being issued to SAN Divers (of which i will discuss in a future article). I was adamant that I wanted a Submariner and was taken to a cupboard that had about 20 watches in it, both Rolex and Tudors, all in different states of repair and serviceability. I went through the batch, selected watches for each of the Navigators in my flotilla, and then picked a working Tudor Submariner for my own use and a Rolex Submariner that was in good condition but not working, and sent it off for repair with the local Rolex Authorised Dealer. I returned the Tudor when the Rolex came back from its service”.

………and my favorite!!

“We once tied one to the bridge on the conning tower of the Daphne Submarine and dived to 300 meters. It came out fine!”

I laugh at this one as, having been in the South African Army in the early 1990’s myself, there was always an attempt to push anything to the limit….and then beyond………I once decided that the fence/wire cutters on my R4 rifle would be good enough to cut through a steel padlock……but I was wrong……and paid the price!!!!

SAN Submariner leather jackets awaiting collection in the Woodburne Room. This is likely a first issue of these jackets as indicated by the presence of senior officers’ epaulets on many of the jackets present (Photo Unknown).

NEXT!

Did the SAN ever receive and issue Rolex watches to its members, or to other arms of service or even foreign forces? For the likely answer to this question, we need to dive into the Rolex Submariners of the SAN and other users.

Rolex Submariners in the South African Navy…….and other places! 1966-1971

My journey into the South African Navy (SAN) Tudor Submariner watches lead me to something else that has remained a bit of a mystery……I had heard of South African ARMY issued Rolex watches but could never find any definitive information or evidence that they existed or were even issued to the South African Army or its members. Then one day I received a call from someone offering me a Rolex 5513 that had made its way indirectly from an owner in Zimbabwe who apparently was a former member of the Rhodesian Special Forces……….and to my amazement, it had the case serial number of the watch inscribed on the outside of the case-back. I immediately referred to an auction site that I remember seeing some years back, where the watch was listed as a “South African Army issued 5513”, and saw that the engraving was the same font and the same size. How could this be?? Did the South African Army issue any watches to certain members? I had many questions to which there were no answers…………so I went looking for these answers……

To find these answers I reached out to an ex-SAN member I knew, who had been referred by another ex-SAN member, who (in turn) referred me to guys he knew….and the search continued, each time going further and further down a chain, each time getting closer and closer to the source of the information I was looking for…then Bingo! I found someone with many, but not all the answers, who referred me to the gentleman who was to fill the remaining gaps!

The gentleman in question was a a retired Senior Officer and Special Forces Member with intimate knowledge of the equipment issued within the South African Army, including the dive watches used by South African Special Force Attack Divers. According to him, NO, the Army never issued any watches (before joining Special Forces, he oversaw everything the Army issued that had a number, from binoculars to vehicles, that was used by soldiers so would know) BUT, that after joining the waterborne Special Forces unit in 1973, he did become aware of watches in circulation and being used by the qualified Divers in the unit. He then explained that these watches were issued from South African Navy stock, drawn from the SAN stores in Simonstown! This made complete sense as the SAN Diving School provided training to many of the Divers from this unit in the early days. In fact, all units of the South African Special forces received training at some point from the SAN in the early days.

…and back to the case-back marked Rolex Submariner 5513 from Zimbabwe mentioned earlier… Zimbabwe, while still Rhodesia, had the Special Air Service Regiment within its Order of Battle (ORBAT) and both written and anecdotal evidence suggests that some of its members attended Diver training at the SAN Diving School and successfully qualified as Divers. It is not unreasonable to assume that specialist diving equipment (including dive watches) would have been procured for this unit too, and this would also have come from South African Navy stores. It is once I heard this that the puzzle of the “case-back marked” Rolex 5513 from Zimbabwe finally made sense………….after being issued to a Dive-qualified member of the Rhodesian Special Air Service, it survived to be discovered many years later in Zimbabwe.

From this it seems that while all Rolex Submariner watches issued originated in the SAN, not all stayed in the SAN but went on to be found on the wrists of both South African Special Force Operators and Rhodesian Special Air Service Members trained by the SAN Diving School. 

One question that has proven very hard to answer definitively is how the SAN came to have Rolex Submariners in service. A tantalising clue to the answer may hang in the SAN Museum in Simons Town. A tradition in the SAN is to have portraits done of former Chiefs of the South African Navy, and one of these portraits is based off the below photograph. Visible on his wrist is what appears to be a Rolex Submariner. As there are pictures of him wearing this watch prior to the submarine program in 1970, it is most likely a Rolex from the 1960’s, which is when he attended the Royal Navy Clearance Diving course (graduating as the Student of the Course) and when he was the founding Officer in Charge of the SAN Diving School on its establishment.

ABOVE: 1971-Pictures from the SA Naval museum in SimonsTown. One of the functions of a Navy Diver is the disposal of explosive devices. A South African Navy diver (Warrant Officer) seen here preparing a smoke float for destruction with a shape charge. Of course accompanied by his issued Rolex 5513. Although quite difficult to see the difference between a Tudor and Rolex Sub, this picture predates the acquisition of Tudor submariners in the SA Navy. The 3-6-9 markers are also thinner and longer in a Rolex Submariner.

In digging a little further I started to document the Rolex watches with SAN or Army ties and found that as far back as 1965 and through to 1971, there was evidence of Rolex watches in the SAN. All were Reference 5513’s and all had case-back engravings matching their case serial numbers. I found several “pairs” that were within 20 units of one another, which leads me to believe these were purchased in small batches. The cherry on the cake for me was the discovery that all the samples I had access to share some common service marks on the inside of their case-backs. And the piste resistance……some of the Later Tudor Reference 7016’s also shares similar service marks!! ……The case-back engraving Fonts seem to be consistent, but sizes do differ…….which is quite normal as the Pantograph used would follow a template, but be set up for each batch………with no easy way of exactly matching a size once changed.

I am sure many remember an article written by Perezscope some time back, with reference to a blackened Rolex 5513 made for the South African Army……. https://perezcope.com/2023/05/07/the-shadow-a-unique-factory-blacked-out-rolex-submariner-5513-milsub/ “affectionately” referred to as “The Shadow”……Well, I had made all these contacts and had asked all the questions…..so asked one more to who was to be the right person to answer it…….

The “Black watch” as the retired Senior Officer and Special Forces Member I interviewed called it, was borne from a need to make equipment used in the South African Special Forces more discreet. His service history within this organisation certainly gave him “licence” to do this. He explained that within ARMSCOR (the Armaments Development Corporation of South Africa, which was both manufacturer and supplier of third party and foreign-sourced equipment to the South African Defense Force) there was a procurement dept that procured goods specifically for special forces, and that if something was required it would be bought for them, and if not available, that there was another department that would make what was required.

The blackened Rolex in question, shown above, was ordered from the special procurement division of ARMSCOR by the member I spoke to, who explained its origins and early service:

“I mentioned that the current watches were too conspicuous and I requested something less visible. Not only was the case blackened, but the luminescence was reduced too”. I believe a gentleman by the name of H****s **** procured it from Rolex directly…….He was a very pushy fellow from ARMSCOR who enjoyed throwing his weight around and seemed to thrive off doing exactly this…….when it finally arrived, I wore it for a while….I believe it was a one off …..It didn’t seem to cut the grade in terms of an operational watch. I wore it for 2-3 years where after I gave it back to stores”

As the member interviewed was not a “Watch Guy”, I guess he wasn’t quite as excited as I was about this watch and hearing its back story. He didn’t really appreciate the significance of the watch, and to him was just another process or experiment whilst serving in his unit of the South African Defence Force.

I have been chatting to the current custodian of this watch and whether he knows it or not……we are planning a “play-date” as I NEED to see this watch in the flesh!!

After this deep dive into the little-known Rolex and Tudor Submariners used by the SAN, the South African Special Forces, and possibly the Rhodesian Special Air Service, as well as a definitive answer as to the origin of “The Black Watch”, I hope that you have heard my case for considering these watches as being MILSUBs in all but name. I hope that the information shared will help others to answer questions on these watches and make their own minds up as to what constitutes a MILSUB watch. For those out there with an interest in Rolex and Tudor Submariner watches used by specialist units in Southern Africa, I hope the information shared helps your research on these watches.

As with the other articles I have written on South African Military watches, I have thoroughly enjoyed this journey. I have met and chatted to the most amazing people, made friends, and enriched my knowledge in the field through the willingness of others to share. I have always encouraged people to share their knowledge freely to allow others to learn…. especially in the field of military watches as there is very little documented. The information I received went far beyond just the watches, and on many occasions, I had to “reel in” and remember this was a watch article. I am however inspired by what I have learned and endeavor to put it all down on paper sometime…. possibly in a book or website, where I can share individual stories of the owners of these as other South African military issued watches and all they had to tell.

When writing this article, I was helped greatly by a few people. One person who helped immensely, and pointed me in the direction I needed to go was Chris M, a former SAN member who still wears a Rolex Submariner in the “field” all these years later. His passion for what he did, does currently, his interest in watches, and his willingness to help me find information was incredible. Chris also helped with final “fact checking” and added loads of interesting additional and important information and photos. Thanks again Chris!

To the others that were willing to help and preferred not to be mentioned, I thank you too Sirs! Thanks also to Scott from @watchistry for your very well written and documented book entitled “ Marine Nationale”……from which I took MN reference. And to “John Silvermann” for fueling my interest in military watches from day 1………all those years back! And of course to Alex (@watches.with.alex) for getting all the watches I buy running again……. Apparently I seem to have a habit of always buying them “rough”……….but unfortunately/ fortunately, none of these came from a sterile “glove wearing” watch salesman in an upmarket shopping center, but from hunts that led me to the most incredible places.

As with any research, this is NOT a definitive source of information on the subject and is merely a consolidation of information I have gathered from the best sources I could possibly find. Together with the information I have first-hand with the watches in my own collection, and those of other collectors, this should be a good reference for information. If you have any information that you think may be of value, and questions about the subject, or feel I have given any incorrect information……please feel free to contact me…I would love to hear from you.

Matthew Taylor 0027 (0) 82 9261534 (WhatsApp)

mstt@me.com or matt@MTV24.co.uk

Instagram @matthewtaylorvintage